AK_Brickster
Innkeeper
Scouting the Lenfel Border
Posts: 3,272
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Post by AK_Brickster on Feb 23, 2015 10:04:47 GMT -8
Previously, we've said no to adding more locations to the map. Not only is it a chore for the admins to keep the map current if it is constantly having cities added to it, but it will invariably lead to a cluttered map. For now, please reference your fortress/town/city's location to the existing map locations.
"A days ride south of ______" "To the east of ______" "Just northwest of _______"
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pyro5050
Outlaws
Resident Historian
Building a ship north of Dingewater
Posts: 446
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Post by pyro5050 on Feb 24, 2015 9:07:57 GMT -8
I have a suggestion after seeing a post by a fellow outlaw requesting to add his fortress to the faction map. I think it would be a good incentive to be able to do this, provided you have reached a milestone of getting x amount of points. This would limit cluttering of the map, and also cement passionate LoR builders deeply within the lore of their faction. Just a suggestion. -Drakk i second this, but would like to add a few requirements Minimum 100 points minimum membership of 1 year Minimum Journeyman member of a guild getting your own city/harbour/castle on the map would be a big deal, so make it difficult to get. i would also suggest that in order to have the city on the map they would need to provide a few different builds from within their city 1: city hall / courtyard / main gathering area for leaders 2: main marketplace of the city 3: housing in the city 4: significant building (could be a statue, clock tower, dock masters quarters ect) 5: a festival taking place as well as provide the following information about their city 1: population and race/faction buildup 2: main economy 3: politics of the city (who they support, who they oppose, ect) 4: what the city brings to the faction they are in, why this city exists! why are people drawn to it! this would greatly limit over crowding, would keep it to highly motivated builders, and force a person to really really think about the development of their town/city/area. i would rather see someone work to build a space than all of a sudden BAM CITY! i also suggest that if a person becomes inactive for more than 6 months unexplained that their city become "abandoned" and fall into ruins. left on the map, other builders could use the space as a site for battles, plundering the ruins, adventures, minigames, ect in the world. i know it might seem like a bunch of stuff to take care of in my requirements but i think it would be a big honour to have your own city and is something i personally would love to work towards, but dont think it should be handed to someone on a silver plate. i am working through my builds to cement a place on the map for my character, it should be a challenge, feel free to suggest changes/modifications, ect.
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josdu
Outlaws
Marooned on the Island of Lost Souls
Posts: 1,176
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Post by josdu on Feb 24, 2015 9:31:59 GMT -8
Minimum 100 points minimum membership of 1 year Minimum Journeyman member of a guild getting your own city/harbour/castle on the map would be a big deal, so make it difficult to get. i would also suggest that in order to have the city on the map they would need to provide a few different builds from within their city 1: city hall / courtyard / main gathering area for leaders 2: main marketplace of the city 3: housing in the city 4: significant building (could be a statue, clock tower, dock masters quarters ect) 5: a festival taking place as well as provide the following information about their city 1: population and race/faction buildup 2: main economy 3: politics of the city (who they support, who they oppose, ect) 4: what the city brings to the faction they are in, why this city exists! why are people drawn to it! this would greatly limit over crowding, would keep it to highly motivated builders, and force a person to really really think about the development of their town/city/area. i would rather see someone work to build a space than all of a sudden BAM CITY! i also suggest that if a person becomes inactive for more than 6 months unexplained that their city become "abandoned" and fall into ruins. left on the map, other builders could use the space as a site for battles, plundering the ruins, adventures, minigames, ect in the world. i know it might seem like a bunch of stuff to take care of in my requirements but i think it would be a big honour to have your own city and is something i personally would love to work towards, but dont think it should be handed to someone on a silver plate (Oh please, you got that so wrong, how'bout "golden platter" instead ?). i am working through my builds to cement a place on the map for my character, it should be a challenge, feel free to suggest changes/modifications, ect. Agreed, having all those restrictions would stop the KC from getting an overload of new cities/fortress to add to the map, also I think the map could be updated only after a certain amount of updates have taken place. Like once there have been 10 cities/fortresses added or taken away, the map could be updated. One last thing, I think people who are Lords or Nobles who own land should specify where it is that the own land and how much they own, its easy to add a small red box to a copy of the map and upload it and one person could update it once in a while. That way no two people think they own the same land. Of course as with the cities/fortresses, an inactive member would have his land passed on to another.
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Mitah Val Karem
Lenfald
Master Cartographer
... tired of all the fighting.
Posts: 131
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Post by Mitah Val Karem on Feb 24, 2015 9:40:12 GMT -8
I have a suggestion after seeing a post by a fellow outlaw requesting to add his fortress to the faction map. I think it would be a good incentive to be able to do this, provided you have reached a milestone of getting x amount of points. This would limit cluttering of the map, and also cement passionate LoR builders deeply within the lore of their faction. Just a suggestion. -Drakk i second this, but would like to add a few requirements Minimum 100 points minimum membership of 1 year Minimum Journeyman member of a guild getting your own city/harbour/castle on the map would be a big deal, so make it difficult to get. i would also suggest that in order to have the city on the map they would need to provide a few different builds from within their city 1: city hall / courtyard / main gathering area for leaders 2: main marketplace of the city 3: housing in the city 4: significant building (could be a statue, clock tower, dock masters quarters ect) 5: a festival taking place as well as provide the following information about their city 1: population and race/faction buildup 2: main economy 3: politics of the city (who they support, who they oppose, ect) 4: what the city brings to the faction they are in, why this city exists! why are people drawn to it! this would greatly limit over crowding, would keep it to highly motivated builders, and force a person to really really think about the development of their town/city/area. i would rather see someone work to build a space than all of a sudden BAM CITY! i also suggest that if a person becomes inactive for more than 6 months unexplained that their city become "abandoned" and fall into ruins. left on the map, other builders could use the space as a site for battles, plundering the ruins, adventures, minigames, ect in the world. i know it might seem like a bunch of stuff to take care of in my requirements but i think it would be a big honour to have your own city and is something i personally would love to work towards, but dont think it should be handed to someone on a silver plate. i am working through my builds to cement a place on the map for my character, it should be a challenge, feel free to suggest changes/modifications, ect. This would be the answer to the question "How to get people more involved with LoR". This would surely motivate me to take more time to build.
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pyro5050
Outlaws
Resident Historian
Building a ship north of Dingewater
Posts: 446
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Post by pyro5050 on Feb 24, 2015 9:51:48 GMT -8
i also would like to head off the people that are about to say this is a big big undertaking. yes it is, when i first joined i asked many questions around the map, forming my own city, things of that nature, and was directed that it was too big of a issue/ cluttering / ect. i accepted that as i am a new member, and stuck to the way AK has suggested we stick to, which is not a bad thing at all honestly. it makes it simple and easy to follow. i however am willing to take on city/land managment for LOR so the KC can focus on story and GC/LC/story if the KC is interested i can draft up my "battle plan" for how i would operate cities/land holdings, certain rules, how new members could easily join into the game with directed but open builds and how those builds can impact the world and encourage development. just let me know.
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AK_Brickster
Innkeeper
Scouting the Lenfel Border
Posts: 3,272
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Post by AK_Brickster on Feb 24, 2015 10:35:54 GMT -8
One last thing, I think people who are Lords or Nobles who own land should specify where it is that the own land and how much they own, its easy to add a small red box to a copy of the map and upload it and one person could update it once in a while. That way no two people think they own the same land. Of course as with the cities/fortresses, an inactive member would have his land passed on to another. I hate saying "never", but honestly I don't think we will ever allow this because then who gets to decide how much land each person gets, and what do new members get to claim once the map becomes "full"? We've purposely kept people from claiming land or even putting a scale on the map because it leaves it somewhat ambiguous as to exactly where everything is and leaves plenty of room for future members. Easy: "Josdu owns several acres of land near the southern region of the Shade" Difficult: "Josdu owns *very specific plot of land as seen on the map right here* which borders *other player's land as shown over here* and there's no room for *new player* to have his own theoretical place in the sun anywhere near those two land plots because they're clearly already owned.
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Lego3364
Lenfald
Gotta love Cracklink
Posts: 574
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Post by Lego3364 on Feb 24, 2015 10:49:01 GMT -8
i also would like to head off the people that are about to say this is a big big undertaking. yes it is, when i first joined i asked many questions around the map, forming my own city, things of that nature, and was directed that it was too big of a issue/ cluttering / ect. i accepted that as i am a new member, and stuck to the way AK has suggested we stick to, which is not a bad thing at all honestly. it makes it simple and easy to follow. i however am willing to take on city/land managment for LOR so the KC can focus on story and GC/LC/story if the KC is interested i can draft up my "battle plan" for how i would operate cities/land holdings, certain rules, how new members could easily join into the game with directed but open builds and how those builds can impact the world and encourage development. just let me know. I think this is a good idea, having a townsman, maybe a "LoR Landlord?" One for each fac possibly. They control the amount of cities. (Maybe they should be the same person who creates the Fac map?) So they can add them easily. Then the maps would expand, there would be more know cities to visit without having to find the person who has a city, PM them, and then wait for them to reply.
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Post by Andared on Feb 24, 2015 11:44:31 GMT -8
I have a suggestion after seeing a post by a fellow outlaw requesting to add his fortress to the faction map. I think it would be a good incentive to be able to do this, provided you have reached a milestone of getting x amount of points. This would limit cluttering of the map, and also cement passionate LoR builders deeply within the lore of their faction. Just a suggestion. -Drakk i second this, but would like to add a few requirements Minimum 100 points minimum membership of 1 year Minimum Journeyman member of a guild getting your own city/harbour/castle on the map would be a big deal, so make it difficult to get. i would also suggest that in order to have the city on the map they would need to provide a few different builds from within their city 1: city hall / courtyard / main gathering area for leaders 2: main marketplace of the city 3: housing in the city 4: significant building (could be a statue, clock tower, dock masters quarters ect) 5: a festival taking place as well as provide the following information about their city 1: population and race/faction buildup 2: main economy 3: politics of the city (who they support, who they oppose, ect) 4: what the city brings to the faction they are in, why this city exists! why are people drawn to it! this would greatly limit over crowding, would keep it to highly motivated builders, and force a person to really really think about the development of their town/city/area. i would rather see someone work to build a space than all of a sudden BAM CITY! i also suggest that if a person becomes inactive for more than 6 months unexplained that their city become "abandoned" and fall into ruins. left on the map, other builders could use the space as a site for battles, plundering the ruins, adventures, minigames, ect in the world. i know it might seem like a bunch of stuff to take care of in my requirements but i think it would be a big honour to have your own city and is something i personally would love to work towards, but dont think it should be handed to someone on a silver plate. i am working through my builds to cement a place on the map for my character, it should be a challenge, feel free to suggest changes/modifications, ect. I think that's actually a really great idea, and AK, I know you have reservations about that due to spacing issues (and rightly so). My suggestion would be to increase the personal points requirement to 250 personal points. Make this achievement a big deal. Even fast builders would likely need to spend at least a couple of years of consistent building to achieve something like this. Let's be honest, how many people are going to achieve that anytime soon? LoR has been running for what, 3 years now? And nobody is even close to the 250 point mark. I know that I for one would be far more motivated to gain personal points if they actually meant something.
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str0ngbad
Garheim
Building for the next GC. Aren't you?
Posts: 274
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Post by str0ngbad on Feb 24, 2015 11:46:06 GMT -8
What pyro is offering is related to something I have been thinking about. Is it absurd to suggest letting people help in ways that they choose but must be approved with the KC, once they hit a certain involvement milestone? In theory, this could allow the game to grow without putting more on the KC's plate but I do not know if it would work out that way so... take this more as brainstorming than an outright suggestion.
Say we had the original 4 guilds and then so-and-so hits... 1 MILLION personal points, they could petition the KC to start a Naval guild with requirements and such having to meet the KC's standards. This guild could then be maintained by that member. There would have to be a plan in place for how to handle such things if so-and-so goes afk though, possibly asking for a volunteer to fill in. Similarly, pyro here could hit the same benchmark and request to be the resident cartographer and put KC approved requirements in place for having your city recognized. Blocking off land is something I really don't like but a small fortress/city marker doesn't limit other players' space that much. If you are worried about people making off the wall requests (I would be), establish suggestions, guidelines, or even just choices that players can take on and make it clear that requests can and will sometimes be rejected. This could add new things to the game every once in a while without adding yet another thing for the KC to maintain. Plus, it would give other players some experience in leadership/maintenance that could translate to capable future FOs/FLs. Again, just brainbarf but something like this would bring incentive, dynamics, and potentially some able bodies to help around the farm.
EDIT: In response to Andared's ninja post, I think it would be best to make most non-administrative goals attainable within a year of dedicated building. A dangling carrot that I know is three years away isn't all that appealing.
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josdu
Outlaws
Marooned on the Island of Lost Souls
Posts: 1,176
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Post by josdu on Feb 24, 2015 12:07:39 GMT -8
One last thing, I think people who are Lords or Nobles who own land should specify where it is that the own land and how much they own, its easy to add a small red box to a copy of the map and upload it and one person could update it once in a while. That way no two people think they own the same land. Of course as with the cities/fortresses, an inactive member would have his land passed on to another. I hate saying "never", but honestly I don't think we will ever allow this because then who gets to decide how much land each person gets, and what do new members get to claim once the map becomes "full"? We've purposely kept people from claiming land or even putting a scale on the map because it leaves it somewhat ambiguous as to exactly where everything is and leaves plenty of room for future members. Easy: "Josdu owns several acres of land near the southern region of the Shade" Difficult: "Josdu owns *very specific plot of land as seen on the map right here* which borders *other player's land as shown over here* and there's no room for *new player* to have his own theoretical place in the sun anywhere near those two land plots because they're clearly already owned. OK, that one isn't really that necessary anyway, but I really was expecting you to say never once you had brought it up .
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Post by Carrick of Garheim on Mar 6, 2015 19:45:37 GMT -8
I have a question regarding the Jarl. If he live in a land with limited/ difficult to obtain resources wouldn't you expect a slightly more aggressive person more inclined to war and chaos thus allowing land gains and access to more resources? I know that trade is one way to obtain resources but if Garheim is lacking in many key resources wouldn't the inhabitants be more inclined to hold on the few that they have? My suggestion would be a slight adjustment in leadership style.
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SpearralSquid
Garheim
Green is not a creative color.
Posts: 1,049
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Post by SpearralSquid on Mar 6, 2015 20:05:25 GMT -8
Carrick of Garheim I don't think Garheim exactly has a resource deficit, but maybe unbalanced resources. I imagine exports like stone, fish, metals, and minerals would be huge, but wood, dye, and spice would be relatively low.
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pyro5050
Outlaws
Resident Historian
Building a ship north of Dingewater
Posts: 446
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Post by pyro5050 on Mar 8, 2015 6:50:30 GMT -8
With recent wars i would expect the metals stores to be depleted, and all the stone and such would be going to rebuild, all the wood would need to be brought down the river from the more isolated areas and such... food would also be scarce.
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AK_Brickster
Innkeeper
Scouting the Lenfel Border
Posts: 3,272
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Post by AK_Brickster on Mar 9, 2015 6:31:02 GMT -8
Yes, as we outlined in the global story update, every faction is experiencing hardships. I don't think Garheim is worse off than any of the other factions though, and they might even be in better shape in the food department, since they don't rely as heavily on agriculture, so they wouldn't be as affected by lost crops due to neglect or having their fields burned by the Queen's troops.
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Post by Sir Caedric Moore on Mar 9, 2015 6:54:23 GMT -8
Honestly, I don't see how adding cities to the map would over-clutter it. There is so much land between those cities already established - would adding a dot here and there really be that intrusive? I agree that allowing just anyone to plop a city anywhere and have it validated could clutter up the map eventually, but the idea proposed about working towards a point total to earn your right to be on the map is a very enticing one and a great incentive to build more. I've only been a member for two years, but I can easily see that participation is way down, even from those still "here". I don't mean to be rude, but it seems to me more of a case of not wanting to officially change the world you guys (KC) created than a case of overcrowding. (Seemingly)none of the ideas proposed in these suggestion threads have been met with anything but instant rebuttal and downright refusal. Why ask if you aren't willing to change anything? Many have even volunteered to undertake the tasks that would be required to make said changes and yet they were (seemingly) ignored - if someone is willing to put in the work to make something happen that many of us want, why not let them? I think what really irks me is that to me it all boils down to the whole "you can have a city anywhere but it doesn't really exist and neither does your character." We're never featured in the storylines aside from the one opportunity to appear at the Queen's feast - which then resulted in our characters being captured for a long period of time with literally NO way to escape or be rescued. Again, I apologize if I'm coming off as rude, but I have to speak my mind on this issue.
I do have a proposed way to appease both sides : allow people who have earned the rank of FREEMAN to officially add their city to the map while establishing a certain set dimension of size i.e. no larger than a city and an outlying town. Honestly, if you added thirty cities to the map, there would still be a ton of empty space for new players.
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