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Post by Sir Caelan Munro on Nov 27, 2015 6:43:00 GMT -8
LoR members,This was an interesting GC for results and it's worth discussing a little bit. Bottom line up front (BLUF), we are changing the rules as such: - Points for winning a category doubles to 10 - Points for winning the most total votes doubles to 10 (for clarity, as Zach pointed out, it has never been computed as a point per vote) - A new reward for coming in second for votes of 5 points These changes will increase the influence of winning a category in the weighted point total for computing the overall winner.....
However, it's important for everyone to understand why our founding members such as AK_Brickster established participation as a key factor in winning a GC: Because we want you to build. One of the main reasons why LoR and Classic Castle and Guilds of Historica were formed is to encourage FOLs to build in the Castle Theme. If we structured our GCs so they were winner-take-all, then why would our developing-members even bother to build? The goal is to have a balanced approach between rewarding both quality and participation. These rule changes stated above should provide a little more balance, but participation is still critical because it's one of our main goals here. And another point: Getting to a major LoR 2.0 improvement, these GC results will directly impact our Global Storyline, and you will see that in the next Global Update...hopefully coming soon. I honestly don't know what could motivate someone to participate under the current points system... Just declare Lenfald as the winner of future GCs already. Adam, as of January 2015 Lenfald was getting their butts kicked, last in a GC, just 11 months ago! The new rules should help balance things out, but so much of this game is about generating interest, motivating FOLs to participate, and then providing opportunities to build what they want to build. This is what we did in Lenfald and turned it around in less than 6 months. And the Outlaws are actually starting LoR 2.0 out in a much better position than they left LoR 1.0 in. So cheer up! There's a rich merchant coming around the corner in a poorly-guarded wagon just waiting to be rolled, it's murky out so ID'ing you will be tough, and the nearest tavern just got a full shipment of The Green Dragon's Best Gut-Rot Lager...life's good!
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Rifiröfi
Outlaws
Wolfgang has gone into hibernation indefinitely...
Posts: 78
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Post by Rifiröfi on Nov 27, 2015 7:27:02 GMT -8
However, it's important for everyone to understand why our founding members such as AK_Brickster established participation as a key factor in winning a GC: Because we want you to build. One of the main reasons why LoR and Classic Castle and Guilds of Historica were formed is to encourage FOLs to build in the Castle Theme. If we structured our GCs so they were winner-take-all, then why would our developing-members even bother to build? The goal is to have a balanced approach between rewarding both quality and participation. These rule changes stated above should provide a little more balance, but participation is still critical because it's one of our main goals here. I get it and participation is important indeed, but it seems to be a more important factor than winning the categories. Hmmm? Look, we just changed to LoR version 2.0 and as an engineer I can completely understand that such a major change may not solve all the issues at once or even introduce new ones. Some minor changes could improve things, maybe LoR 2.1? I honestly don't know what could motivate someone to participate under the current points system... Just declare Lenfald as the winner of future GCs already. Adam, as of January 2015 Lenfald was getting their butts kicked, last in a GC, just 11 months ago! The new rules should help balance things out, but so much of this game is about generating interest, motivating FOLs to participate, and then providing opportunities to build what they want to build. This is what we did in Lenfald and turned it around in less than 6 months. And the Outlaws are actually starting LoR 2.0 out in a much better position than they left LoR 1.0 in. So cheer up! There's a rich merchant coming around the corner in a poorly-guarded wagon just waiting to be rolled, it's murky out so ID'ing you will be tough, and the nearest tavern just got a full shipment of The Green Dragon's Best Gut-Rot Lager...life's good! We outlaws were dead last so it was clear to me that it only can get better What Lenfald did in the last year was truly impressive and I am certain that all you Lenfels gather in a training camp during the GCs and you may only leave if Gary says that you have built enough decent MOCs Cheers Adam
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Post by Sir Caedric Moore on Nov 27, 2015 9:02:36 GMT -8
I, too, understand the importance of participation - more than most, I'd think. Since I started LCC a couple of years ago, the number of people in each faction has consistently effected the build turnout and voting results. Back then, Loreos were the "big guns" with Lenfald coming in at a close second, Garheim in third, and the Outlaws in last (due to a very low number of players). Since then, with many members leaving LCC as we switched over to LoR, Loreos numbers took a very big hit and Lenfald and the Outlaws members have skyrocketed - Garheim, on the other hand, has swapped out old members for new ones, then they too left to make way for new members; almost none of the original members are still present and at total I'd day we have maybe ten active players on a good day. Our numbers have never been high, but we have always done our best and yet we have consistently remained in third due to the overwhelming participation by the larger factions. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining; I'm just voicing my opinion as these things are being discussed that member participation might not be the best way to gauge who wins a GC - individual votes aren't much more preferable, either, as member numbers greatly influence that factor as well (I'll admit, I tend to vote for my fellow Garhims in the hopes that we get enough votes to even matter). I also wonder if in-faction voting for which three builds represent each faction really is or isn't a better idea than just letting everyone vote for whatever build they like - I, myself, can attest to the fact that I very often would have voted for builds that didn't get chosen; even other factions builds What could fix this? I don't know. I'm just concerned that member participation will always dictate the flow of the game - especially when GC wins directly affect the Global Storyline; if that remains to be the case, I fear we Garhims will never be number one and that LoR will just continue to be The Tales of Lenfald and Loreos. Either way, I have had a lot of fun being a member of LoR and am excited to see what the KC has in store for us in the coming year Ronin
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Post by Isundir on Nov 28, 2015 2:03:13 GMT -8
I'm curious, why did a lot of people leave if I may ask?
And should there be a faction lock out? So that you can only vote on another factions builds and not your own factions builds, it doesn't really matter to me I don't care much about the factions in that regard I just look at which build I was most impressed by (in terms of building style) and vote for that.
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Post by Sir Caelan Munro on Nov 28, 2015 6:37:54 GMT -8
Rifiröfi -It figures a wily spy would find out about our secret training camp in the Dragon Scale mountains Sir Caedric Moore - Since players are supposed to vote for THE best entry in each category according to their non-biased judgement, faction size actually shouldn't matter. Notionally, with this guidance each build should be judged on its own merit by the quality of building, presentation, etc. Of course, human behavior being what it is, some players no doubt only vote for the "home team" but the KC believes that most still vote faction-blind, which would explain how the Outlaws won two categories even though they don't have the most members. Isundir - Refering to some leaving, we actually did not have a mass exodus, what happened is...well, let's make this interesting: Er long ago, there was an online Castle-themed clan of builders known as Lands of Classic Castle who lived on an ancient forum called Classic Castle. The clan thrived, and grew in size and strength in number, so that lo the forum would not stand more clan growth. And the owners of the forum did not let the wise Faction Overseers of the Lands have much say in the way of IT, and kept their permissions from them. Then behold the mighty Innkeepers of Merlin's Beard offered their fine forum for the clan to dwell in, and so the Overseers made the journey to the new forum, creating many grand functions and threads to dwell in, and there was much rejoicing. Yet some members of the factions grew distracted by this other thing called LIFE, and used the switch as an excuse to wander away from the fold. Still others made the journey to the new forum but became distracted by other things and drifted off...most of these are now called Bronies.
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Lego3364
Lenfald
Gotta love Cracklink
Posts: 574
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Post by Lego3364 on Nov 28, 2015 6:42:37 GMT -8
Woo Hoo! Go Lenfald!
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Post by Sir Caedric Moore on Nov 28, 2015 7:21:27 GMT -8
Players are supposed to vote for THE best entry in each category according to their non-biased judgement. Oh, I know that's how it's supposed to go lol I'm just admitting fault, here. But as I said before, there were quite a few builds this time around from the other factions that didn't get chosen to represent them that I might have voted for instead of primarily voting in-house. We're also supposed to vote for the builds that best reflect the theme of the GC, and many of the builds chosen didn't reflect these themes very well, of which I am a stickler; too many times I've seen a build that, outside of the story given with it, has nothing to do with the GC or LC winning over entries that do just because of "build quality". If the challenge is to build a log cabin and someone builds an amazing jaw-dropping stone cottage instead, the cottage often times wins anyway. I know this system is here to make it easier for the KC - sifting through so many entries and tagging each one to the main thread could get a little daunting, I'm sure - but I can't help but feel that every build from each faction should just be presented for everyone to vote on. Now, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying this as any sort of, " my entries should have won" sort of thing - just that out of so many builds, only having three chosen to represent each faction limits the factions' chances of winning votes, IMO. But, again, the real point here is that member numbers shouldn't dictate wins, and I'm glad to hear that something is being changed about it. As far as I'm concerned, the Outlaws won this GC
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Post by Ayrlego on Nov 28, 2015 14:09:49 GMT -8
We're also supposed to vote for the builds that best reflect the theme of the GC, and many of the builds chosen didn't reflect these themes very well, of which I am a stickler; too many times I've seen a build that, outside of the story given with it, has nothing to do with the GC or LC winning over entries that do just because of "build quality". If the challenge is to build a log cabin and someone builds an amazing jaw-dropping stone cottage instead, the cottage often times wins anyway. I totally agree with this. In my short time at LoR my voting has always taken this into consideration. Don't get me wrong, some of the builds I don't vote for truly inspire awe - but IMHO they are just awesome builds that are just given a story that in some way loosely fits the GC. Now I’m not saying I disapprove – I actually like the way most GC themes have very loose guidelines - but I am saying this will affect how I vote. As for participation, I joined to motivate me to build, and to hopefully over time improve my building. I joined LoR over some of the other online groups because I prefer the factions here and was inspired by some of the big hitters who participate here. In fact faction choice was hard for me, but in the end my love of dark green and forest type builds outweighed everything else. I don’t really care who wins or loses, except that a little friendly competition helps to drive me to try for higher standards. I am a little concerned that by influencing the story line winning/loosing may take the game in directions that make individual factions less desirable, thus perpetuating the participation numbers issues. Anyway that’s just my 2 cents. Thanks to all who participated and the KC for organising the GC. I really enjoyed it (my first proper GC) and look forward for more to come.
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